For Rabbi Mary Zamore, navigating challenging moments is part of her life’s work. Rabbi Zamore has been a guide for her community throughout the last 25 years. Today, she serves as the Executive Director of the Women’s Rabbinic Network, where she promotes the contributions and growth of rabbis who are women, championing initiatives that foster justice and equity within the Reform Movement and beyond. In this episode, she talks with Elana about the imperative of showing up for her community in difficult times and how she stays grounded in this work. The two also discuss how Jewish leadership has evolved since the first woman, Rabbi Sally Priesand, was ordained 50 years ago this June.
For Rabbi Mary Zamore, navigating challenging moments is part of her life’s work. Rabbi Zamore has been a guide for her community throughout the last 25 years. Today, she serves as the Executive Director of the Women’s Rabbinic Network, where she promotes the contributions and growth of rabbis who are women, championing initiatives that foster justice and equity within the Reform Movement and beyond. In this episode, she talks with Elana about the imperative of showing up for her community in difficult times and how she stays grounded in this work. The two also discuss how Jewish leadership has evolved since the first woman, Rabbi Sally Priesand, was ordained 50 years ago this June.
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[00:00:00] Elana Wien: Hi, I'm Elana Wien and you're listening to Just Leading where we're thinking differently about leadership within and beyond the Jewish world. In each episode, we're talking to people who are leading through the complex challenges of today to understand how we can build a better future.
[00:00:19] Rabbi Mary Zamore [CLIP]: When they finally decided to ordain her, they never were able to come to agreement about what her document would say. And they were uncomfortable in fact, calling her Rav because she is a woman.
[00:00:35] Elana Wien: That was Rabbi Mary Zamore. She was speaking about the first American woman to be ordained as a rabbi, Sally Priesand. Rabbi Zamore is the Executive Director of the Women's Rabbinic Network. She's dedicated to fostering just and equitable communities. She champions initiatives like gender pay equity and safety at Jewish seminaries. Her passion for Judaism and a desire to better the world has driven her to [00:01:00] become the influential leader she is today. I was eager to connect with her on how she is staying grounded in these challenging times.
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[00:01:09] Elana Wien: Welcome Rabbi Mary Zamore. I'm so excited to have you with us today.
[00:01:14] Rabbi Mary Zamore: Thank you.
[00:01:15] Elana Wien: I'd love to just hear a little bit about your backstory. How did you become Rabbi Mary Zamore?
[00:01:23] Rabbi Mary Zamore: So I feel throughout my life, I've had many sparks that have just changed the course of my life. So throughout my high school years, I really wanted to be at a museum curator. It was my passion. And I was an intern at the Metropolitan Museum of Art right before college. And I met a young man who was very open about his wanting to be a priest. And one day we were on a field trip as a group of interns to go up to the Cloisters. I was looking out at New York City and the transition from the Upper East Side, with its perfection to the Bronx, that at the time [00:02:00] was half burnt out.
And I realized I did not want to be in a museum the rest of my life that I wanted to be out with people. And I thought to myself, well, he can be a priest. I could be a rabbi. And that is literally the spark I received to change my life's course. And here I am, this May I'll be celebrating my 25th year in the rabbinate. I served 18 years in the congregational rabbinate, which I loved a great deal. And yet another spark moment led me to apply and become the Executive Director of Women's Rabbinic Network and leave my beloved congregational rabbinate to do a very different rabbinate.
[00:02:37] Elana Wien: I'd love to just hear you share a little bit about, what's kind of the history of women in the rabbinate? Women becoming rabbis in the Jewish tradition.
[00:02:46] Rabbi Mary Zamore: So this June 3rd, we are celebrating 50 years of women in the rabbinate, which marks not only Rabbi Sally Priesand's ordination, her historic groundbreaking ordination, but [00:03:00] the fact that it opened a door, a path for all women to become rabbis. And I would even build that out to be a bit broader with opening the door to women. It changed the model of the expectation of who is a rabbi and what a rabbi looks like and what leadership looks like, Jewish leadership looks like. So it continued to open the door to people with many beautiful identities and continues to.
[00:03:25] Elana Wien: And tell me a little bit about your work with leading the Women's Rabbinic Network.
[00:03:30] Rabbi Mary Zamore: WRN, Women's Rabbinic Network, has been around for over 40 years. So in the very early days of women studying to be rabbis, not only in the reform movement, but the reconstructing movement, women started to gather and especially those of reform identity. This was a time in the 1970s when consciousness groups and gathering in groups like this was very important to women and to the growth of feminism and they were really holding each other.
And being able to express the great [00:04:00] misogyny they were facing; the bias, the harassment, the lack of career path forward. And they were starting to give a vocabulary to this, to encourage one another to persevere. And so that is the roots of my organization. So we've always done individual support. We're a membership organization on one hand and that's our bucket with over 600 members of reform, female identified rabbis, and then our other bucket is the outward advocacy we do. So either that's within the reform community itself or broader.
[00:04:32] Elana Wien: And just to kind of help our listeners that aren't as familiar with the Jewish community, so reform, maybe talk a little bit briefly about what that references.
[00:04:40] Rabbi Mary Zamore: We are a liberal progressive movement of Judaism. And so we all function in jobs and communities with all of our neighbors have many different types. And in fact, many of our households are interfaith households and are places of integration.
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[00:05:04] Elana Wien: You know, we're two years now into the COVID pandemic and continue to be in a period of communal and cultural shifts and disruption. One of the themes of the arc of this podcast is what it looks like to lead through periods of disruption, adaptation. What has the experience been for you and leading over the last couple years?
[00:05:29] Rabbi Mary Zamore: Well, I think if there's anything predictable that there's always going to be the unpredictable, that I know as a congregational rabbi for those 18 years. Early in my career, 9/11 happened. So I've always been aware that life is about the unpredictable and really that is the, in some ways, the task of a rabbi as a Jewish leader, to help people through the unpredictable. And so I guess that is in my wheel house to begin with.
Since Me Too, in his last four years, WRN [00:06:00] has really experienced a great deal of the unpredictable, just as many organizations and many communities have, but we, we've been working on these issues for over 40 years as I explained, but when Me Too unfurled. And the world started to gain the awareness or to recognize what was already under our noses all the time, many people turned to me and my organization, because we were already way ahead of the curve advocating for these issues. So it was really quite an avalanche. And, and what has happened, especially in the last year, which has developed into a Me Too reckoning within the reform movement has really just been the crest of that avalanche.
[00:06:42] Elana Wien: What do you think changed? What happened that was different in the last few years that really led to this?
[00:06:50] Rabbi Mary Zamore: I think we hit a tipping point is the honest answer. I think there have just been factor after factor and it will be to historians to try to [00:07:00] untangle it all. But certainly for my organization after Me Too the vocabulary of Me Too was going across the internet. We had town hall meetings. We're very organic, deconstructed organization. We gave space to one another and rabbi after rabbi started to give her stories. And some of those were the first time that they've shared with another human being something horrific that happened to them, or to publicly speak about something that has happened to them, whether it's just horrible misogyny, bias, discrimination, or assault.
And we did that night after night for hours upon hours. And then we continue to get personal outreach where members were reaching out to myself and other leaders and other hubs of leadership within our organization to give testimony to what has happened to individuals. And we treasured those, those stories just as WRN, frankly, has held those stories for 40 years.
And I think that's the difference. [00:08:00] I think, in witnessing the greater world and the investigations going on, I think that the Black Lives Matter movement also, and seeing people bravely stand up and saying, I'm more, I deserve more. I, I deserve full equality. Uh, the totality last two movements have led to the movement that's going on in the reform movement right now.
[00:08:21] Elana Wien: So, how do you rise to meet the moment? I mean, going back to what you were sharing, that it's really part of the understanding and worldview of being a rabbi is things are unpredictable. Nobody kind of sent you a, a memo ahead of time or put a thing in your calendar saying, you know, on this date or in this timeframe, all of this is going to really explode in this really major way.
So what do you draw from, where do you get your strength [00:09:00] and inspiration to, to meet these kinds of important watershed moments?
[00:09:04] Rabbi Mary Zamore: Well, I get that strength from my members. When we look at the wonderful celebration we're in and that in itself --to have that joy this year of being able to celebrate 50 years of women in the rabbinate and to look at what we call our vatikot, our veteran rabbis, who are that first generation who paved the path for us, each one with a unique, special contribution to where we are today to see the women who've broken glass ceilings.
These are amazing brave pioneers. And so that in itself gives me a tremendous amount of strength and all of my leaders and my co presidents, our board members who are all rabbis and so highly trained professionals with their own leadership styles and gifts. But I think most of all, it's listening to my community and understanding how to steer the ship and what we've heard over and over from our members is that the secrets that have been [00:10:00] held in the reform movement need to be out in the open so that we can really address not only the historic wrongs, but the present wrongs and to ensure this never happens to anybody else. Again.
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[00:10:20] Elana Wien: So talk to me a little bit about what your experience was in becoming a rabbi. What was the experience of going through that process for you?
[00:10:31] Rabbi Mary Zamore: I have to say I had a great deal of naivete about what it means to go through rabbinic formation. And I didn't have any great mentors to begin with. I didn't have any great promoters to begin with. I was literally just a person who wanted to be a rabbi. I, in my later teen years, I had gotten a spark of embracing my Judaism for myself. That sense of that separation, well, this is something I do with me and my family, but rather that I own my, my own [00:11:00] Jewish story and an interaction as an emerging adult.
And I went to rabbinic school, just thirsty to learn, but I didn't have maybe the savvy that maybe I should have to be thinking about the way one thinks about how do I get into college? Who's going to write my recommendations? What kind of high school CV are you developing? I had that for getting into college, but I didn't have that for getting in and continuing my path into the rabbinate. I feel very fortunate that I found my footing. So I did find my way.
[00:11:34] Elana Wien: Was there someone along the way that you found to be an inspiring person to you?
[00:11:41] Rabbi Mary Zamore: There are a lot of people. As I see phenomenal people in front of me, I always feel like I'm getting a little bit of a gift from that other human being and to be able to think about, well, I want to aspire.
The first congregation I served at is a Temple Emanu-El in Westfield, New Jersey and the senior [00:12:00] rabbi who's now the emeritus there, Rabbi Charles Kroloff. And I think the thing that I learned the most from him is that you just show up. You know, something goes wrong in the community, whether it was 9/11 or other moments of, of tragedy or even joy that you literally just show up, you just get in the car and you go to the emergency room, you show up at people's doorsteps.
And obviously you don't force yourself upon them. You know, I've had cases where people said, no, thank you Rabbi, but I appreciate your showing up. Then you say, of course, I'm here if you need me and you leave politely. But the overwhelming majority of people are just so grateful to have you at that moment.
And I think those are the moments when I look at the seven years that I served Temple Emanu-El are the strongest for me, but I also think of the amazing congregants who are so generous of spirit. And I also learned from each one of them over the years. So I've had the pleasure to work with many different Jewish [00:13:00] professionals of many different varieties. I've learned from each one of them, but also be amazing lay people I've worked with.
[00:13:06] Elana Wien: I love that. I think part of being of service, I agree so much of that is about really just showing up. And I wonder when we think about what it means to be a leader leading in justice work, you know, during these challenging times, I think there's a question of who shows up for those leaders? Who are the people or persons that show up for you to give you the support and counsel and nurturing that you need in your leadership journey?
[00:13:37] Rabbi Mary Zamore: Well, Rabbi Emily Segal and Rabbi Beth Klafter, my co-presidents right now, but you know, I'm in my seventh year at WRN, so I have a long line of stellar co-presidents, who've worked with me and my board members as well. I could go through each name on that board list for the last seven years and tell you the amazing ways that they have showed up. But I also have a peer mentoring group that I [00:14:00] meet with once a week. They've been instrumental. They have supported me, been a safe sounding board for me. Made dinner when I've needed it. And sent me chocolate when I've needed it. So, you know, I am really, I feel like my cup runneth over with a lot of people who support me and create that sounding board. I think part of that showing up is also, in terms of leadership, thinking strategically of what you do with what you've learned from showing up. It's not just holding the stories. It's not just holding space, but then that second step of what do you do with it?
[00:14:34] Elana Wien: I love that.
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[00:14:40] Elana Wien: As we were talking about doing the work that you're doing with the Me Too movement, we're at four years now that going viral and having reverberations in our Jewish community, the work itself around the status and experience of women in our community and wider culture. It's decades, long work, it's generations, long work. You [00:15:00] know, when do you get a break? When do you get a chance to kind of rejuvenate and recharge and what are either some of the ways you're thinking of doing that or hoping or wishing to do that in the future to support your leadership?
[00:15:12] Rabbi Mary Zamore: We have to recognize and just own it for half a second, that those of us who work in the nonprofit world, those who work in Jewish leadership and certainly rabbis all have a put everybody first kind of mentality and a little bit of a just forge through kind of mentality and I definitely do. And I know I have a great struggle with this. I think some of the things that I've tried to do to create a little sanity for myself during this, especially this last year, which has been so crazy, is to just be laser focused on what I need to be laser focused on. And there are so many other problems in the world that need attention right now, but I have full trust and confidence that there are other wonderful [00:16:00] people who are going to pay attention to those other problems in the world that need a great deal of attention. And I can't be that person right now. I need to just do what I need to do because I'm the person who holds the expertise and institutional knowledge for this moment, what I'm focusing on. And that's my job.
Now the other things I need to do is I need to take off a couple of days. I need to truly unplug. I need to not look at my emails as much. I'm not there yet. So I'll just be honest. I'm hoping that time is coming. And my leaders keep telling me to do that. So it's not them. It's me. But I'll get there.
[00:16:39] Elana Wien: Well, I'd love to hear a little bit about what's giving you hope right now when you're being laser-focused on really that sweet spot exactly where the area of greatest need intersects with your expertise, your calling, your gifts. We see all of the work that is still to be done. We know it's not [00:17:00] about finishing it, but being engaged in it, but what are some of those kinds of bright spots that are giving you hope?
[00:17:06] Rabbi Mary Zamore: Literally every single day, there are things that lift me. So in our outward facing bucket, we have a couple of different projects, whether it's our reform equity initiative that we co-lead with Rabbi Marla Feldman and the Women of Reform Judaism. Within that work WRN has created a paid family and medical leave resource that we're very proud of. And to hear literally almost daily stories of either Jewish institutions, congregations, or individuals using those tools to create more equity, not only for women, but people of all identities truly lifts me.
Within the safe space work that we're doing and the reckoning we're seeing within the reform movement, it is very hard, very heavy work. It is devastating work, but there's also great hope in this. There is hope in that we all have in our hands, the power to rebuild and to [00:18:00] build something that is so much better and lives up to who we want.
[00:18:05] Elana Wien: I share that hope with you. And I'm excited to see some real, tangible progress to come out of this. So thank you so much, Rabbi Mary Zamore for joining me today, and I just wish you such great success and strength in the work that you're doing and the days and years to come.
[00:18:24] Rabbi Mary Zamore: Well, thank you. And thank you for being one of the people who gives me strength, who enriches me and my understanding of safety and equity and respect in the world and being a partner in change.
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[00:18:37] Elana Wien: Our goal on Just Leading is to think differently about leadership. Next week, I'll be passing the mic back to Gali Cooks. She'll be speaking with Monisha Kapila and Bianca Casanova Anderson.
[00:18:49] Rabbi Mary Zamore: Part of my work in trying to create change. Is also changing me. It is deconstructing my like grind mentality. My worth is in my [00:19:00] work. It's deconstructing that and saying, no, my worth is in my being.
[00:19:04] Elana Wien: Just Leading is supported by the Harry and Jeanette Weinberg Foundation.
It's produced by Wonder Media Network and Anna McClain. For more information about the organizations we work for check out the Jews of Color Initiative at jewsofcolorinitiative.org, the SRE Network at srenetwork.org and Leading Edge at leadingedge.org.