Hen Mazzig embodies many identities; he is an Israeli writer and educator, the son of Amazigh and Iraqi refugees, co-founder of the Tel Aviv Institute, and much more. As a digital influencer and Senior Fellow at the Tel Aviv Institute, Hen advocates for Jewish people, the LGBTQ+ community, and other minorities around the world. Hen joins Ilana in this episode, sharing how his upbringing and military service motivated him to create change on a broad scale. As Jews of Color, Hen and Ilana also discuss the breadth and diversity of their community and how such terms can resonate across cultural experience.
Hen Mazzig embodies many identities; he is an Israeli writer and educator, the son of Amazigh and Iraqi refugees, co-founder of the Tel Aviv Institute, and much more. As a digital influencer and Senior Fellow at the Tel Aviv Institute, Hen advocates for Jewish people, the LGBTQ+ community, and other minorities around the world. Hen joins Ilana in this episode, sharing how his upbringing and military service motivated him to create change on a broad scale. As Jews of Color, Hen and Ilana also discuss the breadth and diversity of their community and how such terms can resonate across cultural experience.
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[00:00:00] Ilana Kaufman: Hi, I'm Ilana Kaufman and you're listening to Just Leading, where we're thinking differently about leadership within and beyond the Jewish world. In each episode, we're talking to people who are leading through the complex challenges of today to understand how we can build a better future.
[00:00:20] Hen Mazzig: I don't want to be defined by antisemites, I don't want to be defined by racists. I don't want to be defined by homophobes. These are not the people that are going to define me.
[00:00:28] Ilana Kaufman: You just heard the voice of Hen Mazzig. Hen is an Israeli writer and educator and the son of Mizrahi Jewish refugees. As co-founder and senior fellow at the Tel-Aviv Institute, Hen advocates for and empowers other Jews to champion tolerance and peace. He thinks deeply about Jewish identity and celebrates the diversity inherent in our community. Let's hear more from Hen.
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[00:00:56] Ilana Kaufman: Good morning Hen Mazzig and welcome to Just Leading. I have watched [00:01:00] your work over the last two years. You've been so active. And so let's just start off by you telling us a little bit about kind of how you describe yourself as a leader and the work you do out- and I won't even say the field, I'll say out in the world.
[00:01:17] Hen Mazzig: Well, first of all, I just want to thank you because you've inspired me so much since I've learned about your work and what you're doing. And I think the world about you. And I want to thank you on behalf of not only Jews of color, not only the Jewish community as a whole, I think you're making the world a better place.
So I'm a writer, but I'm also working at the Tel Aviv Institute, which is a laboratory that is using data to analyze messaging conversation online, where I'm a senior fellow at, and we're using the messaging that we find and the things that are effective to support Jewish voices online in speaking about our experience and our identity in a positive way, in a meaningful way.
I think that the most important thing that we always tell the people and the associates that we work with is that we always [00:02:00] lead with kindness. We always try and lead with something that can inspire other people. You go online and it's so- there's such, I can't even find the words to describe because it's aggressive and sometimes messages that are provoking anger.
And we're trying to change that. We're trying to change it for our community, but also we're trying to change it on the internet for everyone. So that's the work I'm doing with the Tel Aviv Institute and it's been an uphill battle the last two years.
[00:02:26] Ilana Kaufman: You are somebody who clearly fully integrates and embodies your work of justice with who you are. And I'm wondering if you can start us off a little bit by telling us like who, who is Hen Mazzig?
[00:02:41] Hen Mazzig: You know, I, I grew up in Israel. I grew up in Petah Tikva. My mother's family are all from Iraq, Iraqi Jews. They lived in Baghdad since forever. And like, they call themselves Babylonian Jews not even Iraqi Jews because they see themselves as a part of this ancient tradition.
And my grandmother went through really terrible things in Iraq because she was [00:03:00] Jewish and she had to see horrific things happening to her community and being forced out from this country. And she has 12 kids, including my mother. And they all came to Israel and lived in refugee camps and had to deal with the challenges of being a minority that came from, from a Middle Eastern country that was actually at some point, even launching rockets on, on Israel. And they came from there and that was their heritage. And the same story happened to my father's family that came from Tunisia and they came to Israel as well and came as refugees with nothing. Like the only thing they had was their identity.
And in Israel, there was this looking up to the West and looking to Europe and thinking that European is preferred and that European culture is what you need to aspire to. And it's something that reoccurred in my life, this looking down at my culture and my family's culture as if it's beneath the European culture. And it's not really a culture in their eyes.
Hiding my identity as a Mizrahi person, Mizrah means East of course, and Mizrahi are those Jews from the Middle East and North Africa. So being part of this [00:04:00] community is, in Israel. Although we are a majority of Jews in Israel, it's we felt like in minority often, and we felt like we need to hide this identity.
So I had this identity here and then my other part being queer was also hidden because I grew up in a homophobic environment that by and large with my friends and, and the word "homo" was used as a slur against me, often against other people, other friends of mine. So like those, both of those parts of my identity were hidden.
And when I actually, when I came out of the closet as a gay person, then I felt like I can also come out of the closet as a Mizrahi person and reclaim this identity.
[00:04:33] Ilana Kaufman: Were you empowered as a teenager growing up in Israel? Were you an activist growing up? Were you confident about who you were? Tell us about yourself in that way.
[00:04:44] Hen Mazzig: I wasn't really confident. There was a lot of shame around my identity. It's really interesting because I, I didn't really see someone like me being represented that can do whatever they want or get to achieve their dreams. And yet I was so encouraged by my [00:05:00] mother and my grandmother. And perhaps also, because I had so many layers of my identity that were pressured by society. It made me think the only option that I have is just to go upward that I can't stay in an environment that I can't accept myself, be it because of my queer or mine is Rocky identity. So perhaps that's what it was.
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[00:05:22] Ilana Kaufman: So here you are, as this teenager, and as you're having this whole formative experience, you're also in a geographic context where there's some conflict and you're heading off to the Israeli Defense Forces. Just tell us a little bit about kind of how you understood, if you will, like your geopolitical context as a young adult teenager on their way to Israeli Defense Forces.
[00:05:50] Hen Mazzig: So it's around 16, 17 years old. The next year, I'm going to finish, graduate high school and go to the army or even 18. And I'm not sure what I'm [00:06:00] going to do. And I'm in this place where all of my life, I was told to be ashamed of my Middle Eastern identity, because this culture is something that you should be ashamed of.
And that I feel like I know that there's a conflict around me. And that there's people on the other side that we share a lot in common. You know, we speak the same language. We cook the same food. We listen to the same music, but I'm told by society that they are an enemy and my grandmother is telling me stories about things that happened to her by this country.
That is actually in 1991, launching missiles on my grandmother when she's escaping Iraq, it's conflicting. Like you don't really know what's, what you need to do because your society doesn't like this part of you and the stories that you hear, it's just like, even even describing it right now. Like the dissonance that I was in is just, I don't know how I, why I went to this path that I went on.
[00:06:55] Ilana Kaufman: Yeah. Tell us about the unit you ended up being assigned to and tell us [00:07:00] about your deployment, like your assignments out there.
[00:07:03] Hen Mazzig: I mean in general, I wish we didn't need an army. I wish we didn't need any armies at all, but because the IDF still controls the West Bank and back when I served, we just got out of the Gaza Strip. We were still controlling the borders. There are civilians that are caught up in the middle of all this, the situation and the coordinator of government activities in the territory is the COGAT unit is basically an IDF unit that is their job is to take care of all the humanitarian, civil aspect in those territories that Israel still controls in the West Bank. They have different departments there is a department that works on infrastructure, there's a department that works in health issues. And there was a department that works with international organizations on promoting international development. So working with the UN, NGOs, that was something that I really wanted to be a part of this, the unit made sense for me because I felt like I could help people.
And that's something that I always wanted to do. I always want to make people's life better and minimize the hardship that people go [00:08:00] through and also to use my English and my Arabic in a sense, you know, working with Palestinians and international organizations was an incredible place for someone like me, with my, everything I wanted to do and my identity and I, so I served in Ramallah and then I was stationed in Jerusalem and I ended up becoming an officer, which I didn't believe I'm going to be, but I had a commander that really believed in me and supported me throughout this time. And actually that's where I came out of the closet. I came onto my commander in the army for the first time, and I just felt like I could trust him to speak to him about that.
[00:08:32] Ilana Kaufman: Amazing. How did you come out and how was it received?
[00:08:35] Hen Mazzig: So there's a funny story there. Actually I had a friend that, you know, the straightest guy in my eyes back then, told me that he's gay. And I remember that I was really, my whole world was shaken and I came back to the army the following day. And Adam told me, he said, "Something's up." And I said, "Yeah, my best friend just came out of the closet." And he said, "Okay, what's the problem?" And I said, "Well, you know, I really care for him. I don't want him to be hurt."
And then [00:09:00] Adam said, "Well, I think there's something else." I said, " What do you mean?" And he said, "Well, you know, you're gay too." So not helping me out, pulling me out of the closet basically. I, for me, I'm sure maybe some, for someone else, it would be a different experience for me it was just like a breath of fresh air that someone said it for me.
And then I remember him saying, you know, "And you also have a crush on your friend clearly because that's why you're like that." Which I did. And he gave me a day off and he said, "Go back and meet with him and confess your love. And come back to tell me that you have a boyfriend."
[00:09:32] Ilana Kaufman: That's an amazing story. What happened?
[00:09:34] Hen Mazzig: I came back to see my friend Elan and I said, "What you did was so brave, I want to tell you that I'm gay too." And then he said, "Oh, that's amazing. I want to show you all the guys that I went on dates with." And I'm getting upset. And he says, "What's wrong? "And I said, "Well, you know, I thought maybe we can go on a date together." And then he said something really insulting and nasty, but he said, "Now that you're gay, you can [00:10:00] only date people that are fat like you," which was just breaking my heart. Really smashing it. I can't remember what he said after that because I was in my car listening to Adele, driving back home, crying.
[00:10:12] Ilana Kaufman: All in your feelings.
[00:10:14] Hen Mazzig: Exactly. And then when I went back to the army the following day after that Adam said, "This guy is not, is not the love of your life. You'll meet the love of your life. It will be worth it. But what I will do is that I'm going to make sure you're going to officer training school and together we're going to do it."
And, and I remember saying something like, you know, I'm out of the closet now, so it's going to be harder and he said, it's not going to be hard. You're going to be the best commander in the army. And he trained me for, for six months. And then I went through officer training school and I finished first in my battalion, like the top of the, the marks. That was incredible.
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[00:10:55] Ilana Kaufman: What's your relationship with justice like at that time with regard to what's going on [00:11:00] and what you're experiencing in Palestine and the Palestinian territories?
[00:11:04] Hen Mazzig: That has been my biggest conflict. I mean, I keep thinking, why am I out here? Why are we here even? I don't think we need to be here, but I have to do my best to help those civilians. Your whole identity is pressured in this situation again, because you're wearing IDF uniforms. You're an Israeli soldier and you're stationed in a field that you have to take care of Palestinian, Palestinian civilians, that they see you as an occupier and international organizations that I work with, although they need me because they need my help to approve projects and get projects moving or supporting them when a Palestinian civilian is injured and they need emergency rushing them to a hospital in Israel. I am the focal point on all of this, but I know that they don't like me. They don't think that I need to be there because I'm an occupying soldier.
And then the combat soldiers in the field, they see me as disruption because I keep running after them with the Geneva Convention and telling them what they can and cannot do. [00:12:00] And they used to block me off of bases because they said, you know, don't let the snitch in he's going to... because when they made mistakes, I was the one going to their commanders and saying, this is not what we're doing here.
It's just difficult to speak about justice when you're standing there with a weapon and there's civilian population that, that is there. But I was trying to work for justice within this context, the settler community, the Jewish communities that were living in Hebron, they didn't like me at all either. They saw me as someone that is, as they described it, "helping the enemy."
So really no one likes you in the situation, but all I was doing was focusing on really upholding justice and upholding the values that I cared about and I wanted to take care of human lives. And I was able to, you know, during this five years I I've saved dozens of lives and I was able to change people's livelihood.
So it's, for me, it was all about doing these, the small things, yeah, it's a drop in the ocean, but the ocean is made of drops so whatever you can do is meaningful.
[00:12:58] Ilana Kaufman: Right on. Talk with us a [00:13:00] little bit about like concepts of justice in a bigger picture. As you work around the world, you talk about being in the middle and like, nobody likes you when you're a justice advocate in some ways, because you're always trying to bring that, that righteousness together.
[00:13:13] Hen Mazzig: Yeah. It was good to say, you know, you know exactly what it's like from your work, how, you know, people are so resisting to changes and how, I don't know where this quote is from, but you know how that equality can seem like oppression for someone that is privileged.
[00:13:29] Ilana Kaufman: Right. That's right.
[00:13:31] Hen Mazzig: I think that's something that I've been dealing with so much that all my life people judge me because of my identity, but it's now when I moved to the diaspora, it wasn't because of my Mizrahi identity and my queer identity. It's because I'm Israeli or because I'm a Jew or because I'm a Jew that is a Zionist. And I think that perhaps it's again, really my upbringing that taught me that people are not going to like me. And that's the reality. And I can choose either to try and [00:14:00] cover myself up or hide my identity or hide parts of my identity.
And maybe people would tolerate me, but I'm not here for tolerance. I don't want people to just tolerate me. It's really not, not only about me and people are always telling me like, so how are you doing all this stuff? And how is it like you're such a mover and shaker? I think the reason that I'm successful and the reason that people notice it is because I really don't fight only for myself.
I fight for so many other people and that's what leads me and what leads me is love for my community, for all of my communities. Really I want to make the world a better place for, for LGBTQ folks, for people of color, for Jews of color, for, for Jews in general. And I think that working towards that is something that we all should do, but not everyone is doing it.
And we have to keep on fighting for this because fighting for it is it's the just thing to do. And it's something that can make you whole, and it makes me whole, it makes me... like that's what keeps me going and that's every way, every day waking up, like maybe something that I've done will improve [00:15:00] the life of young people.
I feel like I have a part in this, in telling young people that they need to be proud of who they are. And this pride, it doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter which part of your identity your, you want to take pride of, but be proud of it. You know, hiding is the worst thing that you can do and it's oppressing you and it's killing your soul from within. Just being proud is the only way to live.
[00:15:22] Ilana Kaufman: Beautiful. Amen. Amen. All of that.
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[00:15:30] Ilana Kaufman: You and I both use the term Jews of color. Talk with us about like how you came into the identity of Jews of color, what you mean when you say Jews of color and tell us about Jews of color from your perspective in Israel. I know you live in London, what's happening out there from your perspective with Jews of color?
[00:15:52] Hen Mazzig: You know, it's, it's often we find terms that validate something we feel, and that, that was the experience with Jews of color for me. That was the [00:16:00] experience before, even Jews of color, it was the people of color. When I got to America, I lived in Seattle for a couple of years after military service. And it was the first time that I read things about people of color that resonated with me.
The whole concept of racism, the way that it's manifested in Israeli society, it's different than America. And yet I was able to find some connection to the concept of people of color in America. Although the situation is different there and the Black community was minority in, still a minority in America, is different than the experience of Jews of color in Israel, because we are a majority and we are in the Middle East and we are Middle Eastern people even, and there are Ethiopian community that also experienced that experience, different form of racism as manifests itself in Israel.
But all of it is so challenging and difficult to understand. So for me, the idea of people of color, and then Jews of color just made sense because there is something that brings us together. Be it, if you're Native American Jew, or if you're a Mizrahi Jew or Mexican Jew, we all have experienced in society where we were rejected [00:17:00] by the dominated majority because of our, our race or identity.
[00:17:04] Ilana Kaufman: Tell us about how you sustain yourself and what would you offer really the hundreds of thousands of people who follow you and your work, what would you offer them about your own practice if you will? So that they, we can be sustained too.
[00:17:28] Hen Mazzig: Jewish identity is something that really inspires me from, you know, even philosophers and how are we hacking to our true self and our meaning of what we came here to do? And that's really what, what drives me. And I think for me, Judaism is such a, it's a beautiful thing, but it's also, it's, it's about my sisters and it's about my future children and it's, and I always see myself in the middle of these two, you know, the generations that came before me and the generations that will come in the future. And I feel like I have such an obligation for both of them.
The other thing is that doing the way [00:18:00] that we're doing, we often face hatred and racism and antisemitism and people that are really hateful. I don't want this people to lead me. I don't want to be defined by antisemites. I don't want to be defined by racists. I don't want to be defined by homophobes. They're not the people that are going to define me.
There is a beautiful identity, identities that I, that I'm proud to hold. And this is what defines me and my love for my communities and my peoples. That's what leads me. That's, I would never do it if it wasn't only because of the haters, I'm doing it because I love my peoples. I love my community. And I think that's the only way that you can do this work to lead for justice and for change.
[00:18:39] Ilana Kaufman: Thank you for your work out there. Thank you for showing up every day for everybody to make the world a better place.
[00:18:47] Hen Mazzig: Thank you so much, Ilana, and I'm really so proud to know you and so proud to be shoulder to shoulder with you in this work. So thank you.
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[00:18:57] Ilana Kaufman: Our goal on Just Leading is to think differently about [00:19:00] leadership. Next week, I'll be passing the mic back to Elana Wien. She'll be speaking with Rabbi Mary Zamore.
[00:19:08] Rabbi Mary Zamore: There is hope in that we all have in our hands, the power to rebuild and to build something that is so much better and lives up to who we want to be.
[00:19:18] Ilana Kaufman: Just Leading is supported by the Harry and Jeanette Weinberg Foundation. It's produced by Wonder Media Network and Anna McClain. For more information about the organizations we work for check out the Jews of Color Initiative at jewsofcolorinitiative.org, the SRE Network srenetwork.org and Leading Edge at leadingedge.org.